Hull York Medical School Podcast
Hull York Medical School Podcast
Ep 5: Electives at Medical School
What is it really like to do an elective as a medical student? Find out in our latest podcast episode!
Medicine students Graciaa and Cameron, as well as Electives Lead and Cardiothoracic Surgeon Dr Michael Gooseman, give their insight, including:
- What are electives
- Why electives are beneficial to Medicine students in their future careers
- Where you can go and what you can do in your elective
- Insight into where Graciaa and Cameron went on their elective
- How medical students share and learn from each other's experiences
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Welcome to the Hull York Medical School podcast we're going to be speaking about the electives today and I'm joined here with my colleagues as well. I'm one of the final year medical students here at the medical school. My name is Gracia and I did my elective last summer And would you guys like to introduce yourself? Oh yeah of course yeah my name is Cameron Hoyle I'm one of the fifth year medical students as well, I did my elective also last year and I did mine in Hull Royal so it's really a pleasure to be talking about electives today. Thank you very much my name is Michael Gooseman and I'm the Hull York Medical School electives lead so it's my responsibility as part of actually a wonderful team at HYMS, to coordinate and allow, you know, students to have a good elective and we'll go into a bit more of that I'm sure. Yeah. Absolutely so would you guys like to talk a bit more about what the elective is and what you guys did? Yeah an elective is a really really enjoyable part of being a medical student whichever medical school you join it gives medical students a really good opportunity to spend sort of six to eight weeks outside of medical school doing something that they want to do getting a different experience you don't get in medical school; whether that be in the UK in various different hospitals or whether that be abroad just getting that slightly different experience that you're not going to get on your normal clinical placements when you're having to you know balance studying and go into placement, it gives a little bit of a break to try and do what you want to get out of that six, six to eight weeks. I think you put it extremely eloquently it's basically a time and I think I look back on my experience and it's a time when you can really pick and enjoy a placement that is driven by you is about you and is to address the things that you want to do. So it really is chosen by yourselves and we very much encourage that and I'm sure as we talk about the specifics of what you can do we'll go into what we try and encourage in terms of you know personal and professional development on it so. Yeah the medical school has quite a every medical school has a curriculum that you have to stick to to pass your exams and gain that experience you need to become a doctor, but to have that period where you can do what you want and get what you want from an experience really I think just makes you a better doctor not necessarily through you know knowing the stuff to pass exams that's what the curriculum's for. It's more getting that experience to make you a better clinician and get those experiences to better help patients in the future and guide what you want to do as a career as well. Yeah absolutely agree and I think alongside what everyone, both of you have said it's quite a nice opportunity to just pick sometimes an area of medicine or even outside of medicine that might be related to how you could be a better doctor in the future and go away to an area that you might have never, ever considered going something very different from your medical school or the demographics of it. So yeah, so I completely agree. Where where can anyone go for their elective? Literally anywhere in the world really, is the simple answer I say I did mine in the Hull York Medical School patch, I did mine in Hull Royal infirmary. I think you said you went down to London didn't you for yours, lots of my colleagues went abroad went to the Philippines went to America, Malta and everybody has got a different experience from their elective and that's really, really good because you can then sort of share those experiences and and spur each other on really. Yeah absolutely, and I like you said, I went to London for mine which was a very, very different demographic to Hull York and I got to do it in neonatology which is not something we unfortunately due to COVID at the time got to experience, at medical school itself and I did a mixed research and clinical elective for mine as well which meant got to work with a lot of different London neonatology centers and and beyond London in fact, that was a very new and interesting experience for me. Yeah. To expand my horizons beyond a certain geographic. Yeah. Yeah absolutely. I think if you're looking and you sat there you know at home and you're looking to study medicine the the elective is a time and it comes later in the Hull York Medical School program because you'll have acquired a lot more skills in your studies by then and people do often talk outside of medicine or inside of medicine about what electives involve and often people speak about going to around the world, but I and in my role now I'm very keen to make sure that if it's not something you want to go abroad or you want to go too far that you can do this very much in the local area and we will support that and it'd be very much a time when you can pick something that you want to do so it benefits you and we do appreciate it obviously when you're planning an elective it can be, as you as you quite rightly put it, in all these areas in the world, which would which we support largely we could go into the caveats on that but obviously it has to be safe and secure for students to go, but I would very much emphasise that if it's something that you're looking at medical school and and we all have I still remember a long time ago when you're looking at it from yourself it's a big degree there's a lot of involvement in it so it's not something I would emphasise that you have to go away for. Yeah and I'd agree with that definitely, I mean I considered doing my elective abroad, lots of other factors at play financially I wasn't in a position to afford that and just like what you said that's not what's expected you're not expected to spend eight thousand pounds on your elective that's not realistic no one can afford, you know, not everybody can afford that and that shouldn't disadvantage students either. Like I say I did mine in Hull Royal Infirmary, which was part of the Hull York Medical School patch and it was honestly such an amazing experience, I learned so much I spent six weeks just in the A&E Department which is what I want to do as a career and it really helped solidify that that is what I want to do. I integrated myself more into the team than what I would do when I was on placement. Got really involved with some of the complex clinical cases getting involved with all the skills and that's really actually helped me throughout fifth year as well we do our electives at the start it's really helped me because I've become so much more competent doing those skills and integrating myself a little bit more into the team and as well understanding some of the challenges that the local area has that's where I'm going to be starting my F1 and knowing some of those challenges whether that's to do with the ambulance service, the A&E Department, the NHS as a whole knowing those different difficulties actually helps you become a better doctor as well I think. Yes absolutely and I think kind of mentioning on the point that you could go anywhere for your elective I think the medical school has a lot of support in place for when you are picking your elective, they're very understanding that these things take time and that sometimes plan don't plans don't always go as as one hopes. I personally had an elective plan abroad and that didn't go through I had to change it quite last minute, but the medical school was very supportive and if there was any difficulties with financial support as well, there are a lot of bursaries out there outside of medical school as well and within that can you know support it and I personally applied for a few - did win a research elective bursary as well which really helped support my process of living in London which is very expensive sometimes. So there's a lot of support and just dropping an email to the electives department within the medical school is all you need to really get some help out there. Absolutely. Lovely and I know you mentioned you learned a lot about the Hull York acute care pathway What would you say are your biggest learning experiences moving forward as a doctor? I think particularly if you, you know, I want to do A&E and I think it's very easy to look at A&E as a medical student sort of 'oh my God it's so exciting all of the time' and you know you're saving lives 24/7 and the reality of that wasn't the case and I think that's what I learned from my elective, wanting to go into A&E some of it is about, you know, holding someone's hand and guiding them through what is a particular scary experience if you're you know you sat in A&E department you don't unfamiliar surroundings I think that's one key thing I learned from my elective as well as understanding some of the stresses of an A&E department and trying to integrate yourself really into that team and just knowing how different teams across the hospital run down to A&E and work together to help those really really poorly patients in that time whether it's through you know coming in cardiac arrest or they've had a car accident and it's really, really amazing just to see the integration of work between the anesthetists the trauma team the ED staff and that was honestly fantastic and that was in the hospital that I've been doing a placement in but I just didn't get that experience through the curriculum. Spending that six weeks just in that department was fantastic just that, that added experience. Yeah I'm sure. It's brilliant to see the enthusiasm and the benefit you've gained from it and that as Hull York Medical School, we want to get people to achieve is the is the benefit. And you mentioned some challenges and I would say that we work as, people who I work with are very, very supportive they're a fantastic team and when there are challenges and if you sat there again because I realise this is, again, you may be sat thinking about what medicine is and what it involves and it can seem very overwhelming. If there's issues with finance we will, you know, we'll support and guide people through, and again it goes back to the point and I would emphasise that you will not have a different experience as you've said from being local to whether you go abroad it's, if it's what you want to do and it's been driven by you the benefit huge. Because when you're at Medical School you've got a lot of deadlines to work with as well, you're learning a lot of new content so you're trying to juggle a lot of things at one time, but during the elective is the one time you have to just be part of the team for six weeks or eight weeks even if you want to be there for longer and go into any sort of field that you really want to. I know friends who went to prisons to observe patients and there or went to do acupuncture or any physiotherapy even, just to see a different part of healthcare so it can really be as varied as you'd like it to be, or it could be a very specific department like Cameron and I did, but it is very much about what you put into it that's what you get out of it. So I I know that I got to come we got to come back at medical school and and present our electives to everyone within the year Group which was a very lovely way to see what other people had done kind of learn from their experiences and kind of feel proud of the Year group for being able to go to such a variety of places and share the findings with us. What about you how did you find kind of speaking about your elective when you got back? Yeah I thought it was really, really good just seeing you know colleagues that went to places like you know the Philippines which has a very different Health Care to the UK and seeing their views on a place that they've never been before a health care system they've never been in before and sharing those experiences how difficult it was. You know in the UK if you're poorly you can walk straight into hospital and you'll be seen straight away in different areas of the world from their experiences that might not be the case and it's difficult as a clinician to watch that and some of those experiences were fascinating to listen to and obviously my own experiences in Hull Royal, I spoke about when I was reflecting on my experience. There's a particular night that was extremely difficult probably the most difficult time I've had at medical school from an emotional point of view, you know, there was three patients that sadly died in one shift and that's the first time I've really, really been affected by that. But having that experience has actually made me probably a better doctor knowing that how to deal with that experience, how it affected me and reflecting on that and reflecting on some of the challenges that each of those patients had throughout their journey. Absolutely. Really interesting to discuss with the colleagues yeah. And I remember you kind of sharing that experience when when you came back from your elective and I remember finding it quite moving because it was very different to what I had I was working with very premature babies and because mine was a mix of research and clinical the main thing that I got out of it was that I really truly got to see the impact of research on clinical care because I was doing my research on on stoma, temporary stomas in neonates but not getting to see any neonates. And being at this placement meant I got to see what families experience when they're 32 week old premature baby was having a stoma inserted and it was it was very moving. Yeah and I think it's one of those things that you don't necessarily get to experience during the curriculum I certainly haven't anyway and because I was so involved in the team you know we were involved in the discussions with the family afterwards on that particular night and that was again really, really moving and really I reflected a lot from that involved with the discussion with you know the wife and the family about what had sadly happened and that's something I'd not experienced during medical school sat there actually having that sad discussion, but I've learned so much moving forward and being able to have that discussion moving forward feeling the confidence as well to have that discussion with family members as a doctor as a clinician yeah. And kind of looking back at your elective experiences are there anything that you? No I think that brings into something very important because you may be looking to study medicine because you already know the sort of career you want to do. You've said you know emergency medicine, you may want to do something in surgery or it's a huge career that medicine opens the door to and I think certainly when I was earlier on in my career I knew I wanted to do surgery and actually the elective really does afford you the opportunity to get assess to a specialty that may be not represented normally in the medical degree as such. So, you know, our in cardiothoracic surgery it's not somewhere where you would be regularly allocated to but this allows you to actually take the opportunity and choose to get yourself immersed in the specialty and that's what I would say I got out of my elective because it was it set off it enables you to form good relationships with colleagues, it enables you to potentially take on extra projects that might not be the clinical work and we've had and I was sat there listening with a lot of pride actually to see what the professional development it brings about and that's what we want to achieve. So I think what you can achieve is the benefit in terms of your studies but there's very much a bigger scope to extend that way beyond medical school. Yeah I think being a medical student is very much more than just passing those exams and getting that you know degree certificate at the end. It is about that is about the bigger picture and becoming a future doctor a future clinician and being involved with patients that's what a doctor is and that elective does give you that really really good experience to get that integration, not just you know sit with your head in a book or just focus on the passing the exam part of medical school, it gives you such more of an opportunity to have a bigger scope. And we do see that so with the presentations you talked about you see people because they're so the interested in that area, it immerses them in that experience they get the professional development to talk about but also personal development you talked about the challenges you faced and this is something because when you're very interested in it and that's what we encourage you to do, then it's a natural thing almost to immerse yourself more in that, in that area and I think it can be very invaluable longer term yeah so. I completely agree. Yeah absolutely I would say it was a very enjoyable experience overall doing the elective probably one of my most enjoyable experiences of medical school and I will always stay in touch with the clinicians and all the tutors that I worked with during my time over there and I'm sure it would be hopefully welcome if I ever went back there again. From that point I'm just a tiny part of it you know a wonderful team that delivers the the electives and and they really do advocate for students and what I would say is if you're thinking or you've got worries terms of you would love to go abroad but you don't have the, you're not familiar with what you would need to do to travel, again that's something we'd support and we're actually working on that for this year because obviously we've had a few years that's been heavily disrupted by COVID so things are progressing all the time. And what I would say is if you've got some an ambition to do something that will and again what we look at is, will it bring about professional and personal development? And if that's something you can show with then we will be supportive and I think you're both very eloquently put that that these experiences can really have a long lasting impact. Yeah definitely. Professional personal development is definitely the key phrase there it's not about the science it's not about the science, the medicine it is about the development of you as a person and as a clinician for the you know 30 years you're going to spend as a doctor. That six week period you know could change things really and grow yourself yeah. Absolutely and you can generally do it in any area of healthcare that you like or even a bit beyond it if it's going to help you in your in your future they don't have to worry about being a specific hospital for that. You definitely don't need to worry about in first year going oh my God I don't know what department I want to be in you know that's why the electives are generally done at the end of medical school across the country because through the you know first four years medical school it gives you a chance to see those departments see the things you like, see the departments you might not like so much and then you might be able to try and pick your elective from there. Absolutely. And don't feel there are any barriers in terms of as we've emphasised through means or or because you don't know people in a particular specialty, I'm very much of the view that we should encourage and we look to support and find supervisors for people who maybe don't who maybe have an interest in a particular area but don't feel they have the and I'll use the word contacts but don't feel they can so we're very much there to support and if there's something you feel you want to do then that should be pursued and we would be really supportive of that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you very much for coming in and speaking at the podcast today about the electives we really hope you find it useful and please go and find more podcasts on the Hull York Medical School website if you want to find out more about the medical school thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you.[Music]